Curse

Fril Estelin · Jan 06, 2008, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

people have to admit that one driving force to playing GWs is to look better then the player next to you, whether it be with armor or titles or having a better skill bar and being able to kick someones ass.

You know what's sad? This very type of reasoning is not going through my mind, but I agree that many people do behave like that (I think it may also be because life gets more and more like that). The social pressure is getting the best of a lot of people, and showing off becomes the norm (and the other extreme in GW: people start fighting against the MMO side of the game and want to be left alone, in their instance, with their "real friends"). I asked earlier in this thread if this was also the case in WoW, meaning if it's statistically as bad as in GW, but I guess it's not a real question (and probably a question which interests few people).

I tried to write a thread on how the gaming world has become so competitive that we become aggressive and start naturally to behave like mercenaries:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10240997
I know it's not a GW-specific problem, WoW has people killing characters to still their stuff and annoy them all the time in-game. But I feel so sad for GW because I felt that there was a certain subtlety in the game and the approach Anet took, a lyricism combined to beautiful artwork and the willingness from Anet to share fairly with the community (which game puts you in contact with a person like Gaile, which is herself in close contact with devs?).

GWG looks like an extreme version of what's happening in-game, though it's decomposed into subforums (Q&A is very often friendly, Riverside is tough like PvP and trolled, the lore forums are sweet like PvE) and that may look ok. But it follows the same trend.

People will blame the game designers (yes, they do have a part of the responsibility) or the other people in-game (Zinger's example is blatant, see the post where he references the screenshots), always forgetting the role they played in this non-sense. It is OUR shared responsibility, yes Sir, I'm guilty too, no exception.

*music of Gary Jules' Mad World*
It's a very, very, sad wooooorl

*puts back his human suit*

Bryant Again · Jan 06, 2008, 10:52 PM // 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHannum

And yet after 9 months of playing WoW, which I still admit is somewhat better than GW when you ignore the time & money differential, I found none of that particularly appealing and considered most of it a turn off.

Okay, so WoW isn't a good game for you? I'm not saying WoW is superior because of this. Knights of the Old Republic wasn't terribly addictive (a game that ends) but I still consider it one of the best RPGs of all time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHannum

According to you, even though I played several hundred of hours of WoW, I was playing it wrong...

I assumed such because you were complaining about respawns in instances. Respawns are rarely a problem unless you are, frankly, doing horrible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHannum

...and that must be why I find that GW is also a MMORPG that compares very favorably to WoW and, in fact, trumps WoW when you do consider the time and money factor.

When you consider the time and money factor, there are thousands of games that trump WoW that are actually good. What makes GW any different?
The fact that it can only be played online?

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHannum

You can try to pretend that there's a huge difference, but there isn't. Most players are just running about as a fantasy character in a hybrid 3rd/1st perspective, often with friends, in a fantasy world doing heroic stuff, smacking monsters in the head, and taking their loot.

As I've said before: What Guild Wars offers is great. It's a big world with cool monsters, smart action, and overall a great feel. Pick it up for that, not for big and high-end weapons with a large emphasis on leveling, which are things people look for when something is labeled as an MMO (or an RPG for that matter.)

It's just that the games appeal to two vastly different audiences on a multitude of levels. They may have things in common, but this is what it ultimately comes down to.

freaky naughty · Jan 06, 2008, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Knightfall

Ever notice how people just keep making excuses for GW's and never answering my questions or the real questions that matter? What has the most number of sales, the most population and is on the top 10 list of best selling computer games since its release? Cmon you can type those 3 BIG letters can't you? WOW!

Alright you're pretty retarded for saying that.
Brittney Spears sold more records than Black Sabbath does that make Spears more talented than Black Sabbath members? FU$K NO! I'd bet a hundred bucks that if GW had more players than WoW you'd be saying that sales don't matter. The Sims sold way more than WoW did does that make The Sims better than WoW. Stop being a retard and take your retarded logic elsewhere.

DreamRunner · Jan 07, 2008, 01:35 AM // 01:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

You're always sacrificing your real life when you're playing a game, just as we're sacrificing our life on these forums. The difference being how much you sacrifice.

For me, I've found great guilds with great instancing and raiding schedules. I play for a few hours a night a few hours a week and I do fine. School is fine, girlfriend is fine, friends are fine, family is fine, work is fine. I am fine.

I found problem with WoW is that its harder to stop and start again exactly where you left off. I think guild wars allows people more freedom to stop when they need to for whatever reason. In WoW you constantly have to move forward and always have to progress further and further. This is part of the addiction where people are on WoW for so long, because the game has a constant drive to keeping progressing and is harder for the player to stop.
This is mostly seen in raids or dungeons where people spend lots of time, up to many hours in it.

Bryant Again · Jan 07, 2008, 01:52 AM // 01:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

I found problem with WoW is that its harder to stop and start again exactly where you left off. I think guild wars allows people more freedom to stop when they need to for whatever reason. In WoW you constantly have to move forward and always have to progress further and further. This is part of the addiction where people are on WoW for so long, because the game has a constant drive to keeping progressing and is harder for the player to stop.
This is mostly seen in raids or dungeons where people spend lots of time, up to many hours in it.

It's when people who don't have a large and open schedule starting playing with people that do. That's where people lose their priorities and get a bit lost in the game.

In terms of "stopping wherever you want to", this is not a foreign concept. That's been in existence ever since there was a "save game" feature.

tmr819 · Jan 07, 2008, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

In terms of "stopping wherever you want to", this is not a foreign concept. That's been in existence ever since there was a "save game" feature.

True. But having played both games quite a lot, I have to say "stopping where you want to" is considerably more difficult to do in WoW than it is in GW, wherein you always have the option of playing with incredibly patient NPCs and you never have to worry about respawns on top of your character or getting kicked off the server for being afk for too long.

As an example, if you start a longish dungeon or instance in WoW (and most of them are quite longish, in my opinion) you really have to (1) stay to completion or (2) bail out on your teammates and lose all the time you put into it. In other words, there is a stronger pressure to just keep on playing. I really don't miss that aspect of WoW. Not at all.

Often in WoW, I would want to start a dungeon but I knew I couldn't because it would take too long and maybe I only had an hour or so. I found that very frustrating. Because I generally only have a short block of time to play here or there, GW is ideally suited to me -- even GW quest lines and dungeons that take an longer amounts of time are OK -- because GW "saves my place" if I am in the middle of something and get called away. There is also very little to no time wasted just forming a group in GW compared to WoW, once again because the NPCs are always there and ready to go. Waiting for that "tank" or "healer" for your group in WoW in order to get started just gets really annoying after a while.

In GW, you can start a dungeon full knowing that you cannot complete it because it's getting late, since you know you can just resume your efforts in the morning if you want to.

This is a subtantially different play dynamic. GW melds the option to "save/hold" your place that you would get in a single-player RPG with the benefits of a multi-player RPG in that it is fairly easy to group with others when you have the time and want to do so.

My preference of GW over WoW hinges largely on the fact that there is so much less "downtime" in GW than in WoW; I spend more time actually playing the game than I do finding groups and looking at my watch and thinking, "dammit. it's almost 1:00 AM and we are still slogging our way through Mauradon" or whatever.

This "save game" ability is a feature that gives GW, in my opinion, a definite edge over WoW -- and one that I hope is retained in some fashion in GW2.

Bryant Again · Jan 07, 2008, 03:19 AM // 03:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmr819

This "save game" ability is a feature that gives GW, in my opinion, a definite edge over WoW -- and one that I hope is retained in some fashion in GW2.

While Guild Wars' doesn't have so much a "save feature" as much as it does a "pause button", it still is the reason I go H/H whenever I can - If something happens, I can "pause" the game (go AFK) and attend to it.

Cacheelma · Jan 07, 2008, 05:01 AM // 05:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by freaky naughty

Alright you're pretty retarded for saying that.
Brittney Spears sold more records than Black Sabbath does that make Spears more talented than Black Sabbath members? FU$K NO!

Yes it does.

*plays Gimme More one more time*

1 up and 2 down · Jan 07, 2008, 05:20 AM // 05:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Knightfall

Ever notice how people just keep making excuses for GW's and never answering my questions or the real questions that matter? What has the most number of sales, the most population and is on the top 10 list of best selling computer games since its release? Cmon you can type those 3 BIG letters can't you? WOW!

This may be another excuse for GW, but which game has been out longer? Which game has had a longer time to build up a bigger player base? Cmon you type those 3 BIG letters can't you? WOW!

Cacheelma · Jan 07, 2008, 06:35 AM // 06:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1 up and 2 down

This may be another excuse for GW, but which game has been out longer? Which game has had a longer time to build up a bigger player base? Cmon you type those 3 BIG letters can't you? WOW!

I don't think 6-month headstart of WoW would be the only reason why it has sold *at least* 5 million more copies (according to current active accounts alone).

Malice Black · Jan 07, 2008, 11:43 AM // 11:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

I don't think 6-month headstart of WoW would be the only reason why it has sold *at least* 5 million more copies (according to current active accounts alone).

There is no way you could work out the figures for the amount of copies sold. Considering most hardcore players would have 3+ accounts?

WoW has sold more because it's a true MMO, and anyone who likes MMO's plays it.

Fril Estelin · Jan 07, 2008, 11:51 AM // 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

anyone who likes MMO's plays it.

...and who's willing to pay $15 a month! (and who doesn't dislike Fantasy)

It's not a black and white situation (pun intended)!

Master Knightfall · Jan 07, 2008, 11:58 AM // 11:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by freaky naughty

Alright you're pretty retarded for saying that.
Brittney Spears sold more records than Black Sabbath does that make Spears more talented than Black Sabbath members? FU$K NO! I'd bet a hundred bucks that if GW had more players than WoW you'd be saying that sales don't matter. The Sims sold way more than WoW did does that make The Sims better than WoW. Stop being a retard and take your retarded logic elsewhere.

The only retard here is YOU because you can't answer the question you of course went into strawman and trolling mode as that is what real retards do here. So I win again and you = FAIL because you didn't answer the question you went off into Britney Spearsland. Apples and oranges apply here we aren't talking about Britney Spears we are talking about GW's vs WOW and the NUMBER ONE TOP LEADING SELLING AND PEOPLE PLAYING MMO/MMORPG IN THE WORLD. Sorry GW's is sooooo far down in that catagory of being number one. haha

Redfeather1975 · Jan 07, 2008, 12:01 PM // 12:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Knightfall

The only retard here is YOU because you can't answer the question you of course went into strawman and trolling mode as that is what real retards do here. So I win again and you = FAIL because you didn't answer the question you went off into Britney Spearsland. Apples and oranges apply here we aren't talking about Britney Spears we are talking about GW's vs WOW and the NUMBER ONE TOP LEADING SELLING AND PEOPLE PLAYING MMO/MMORPG IN THE WORLD. Sorry GW's is sooooo far down in that catagory of being number one. haha

Hey Master Nightfall you're right.
What should we do now?
Should we be sad? Should we no longer enjoy Guild Wars?
Should those of use who once played WoW, go back to WoW?
Should we recognize players who play WoW are making the superior decision and accept their criticisms of our preferences.
Really, what should we do.

Fril Estelin · Jan 07, 2008, 12:08 PM // 12:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Knightfall

Sorry GW's is sooooo far down in that catagory of being number one. haha

Microsoft Windows has about 95% of the OS market, does that make it the better OS. No, surely not (it's getting better but it's not the "best"), only the most popular, and this can only be understood thanks to the history and the monopoly that Microsoft has created.

Actually, this comparison is not so bad: I think that WoW is the equivalent of MS Windows, while GW is more Mac OS X

.

Redfeather1975 · Jan 07, 2008, 12:10 PM // 12:10

Fril, you're not appealing to Master Knightfall's goal here.
First we have to define what that goal is.
I hope my post could help us find that out.

Master Knightfall · Jan 07, 2008, 12:11 PM // 12:11

No just admit which is the better game overall and play what YOU like. I never said GW is a bad game I just said it's not number ONE. That's what most people here have a problem with admitting when it is as plain as day. The numbers don't lie. The populations don't lie. The overall CONTENT of both games doesn't lie. WOW offers soooooo much more than GW's. As I said though before GW's is for the poor and most pre-teens and teenagers. Not much here for adults at all really. No progression, no real goals that have any real value. Just a handful of titles offer any real value within the game once you've defeated all the chapters and expansion pak. Thas all.

See you people that play GWs and love it are really doing the same things we/they are doing in WOW, the ony thing about GWs is you don't progress repeating the same silliness over and over whereas in WOW you do and much much futher with more carrots in front of the horse type play than GWs has. GWs becomes boring because it has no progression or anymore goals other than VANITY? To me there is no fun in gaining vanity without POWER to go along with it like in WOW or EQ or the rest of the others. GWs is different, but, it's still really the same as there is nothing more than repetitive play of the same thing session after session.

GWs is not even a good DIABLO 2 online to me really. It has all the markings of playing like a Diablo 2, set of heroes and henchies might just as well be the necromancers pets and golem. Mobs every 10 ft, big boss at the end. The big and best difference between Diablo 2 and GWs is the loot and character progression as well. I love my necro in Diablo 2, but, there's not one single character in GWs I'd say I really think is that great. The necro is fairly kewl, but, takes too much micromanagement to upkeep the pets and keep restoring them.

Master Knightfall · Jan 07, 2008, 12:12 PM // 12:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

Microsoft Windows has about 95% of the OS market, does that make it the better OS. No, surely not (it's getting better but it's not the "best"), only the most popular, and this can only be understood thanks to the history and the monopoly that Microsoft has created.

Actually, this comparison is not so bad: I think that WoW is the equivalent of MS Windows, while GW is more Mac OS X .

And actually that is how an IGMO would think. I rest my case your honor. We have won yet another victory in the truth of the matter.

Redfeather1975 · Jan 07, 2008, 12:15 PM // 12:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Knightfall

No just admit which is the better game overall and play what YOU like. I never said GW is a bad game I just said it's not number ONE. That's what most people here have a problem with admitting when it is as plain as day. The numbers don't lie. The populations don't lie. The overall CONTENT of both games doesn't lie. WOW offers soooooo much more than GW's. As I said though before GW's is for the poor and most pre-teens and teenagers. Not much here for adults at all really. No progression, no real goals that have any real value. Just a handful of titles offer any real value within the game once you've defeated all the chapters and expansion pak. Thas all.

See you people that play GWs and love it are really doing the same things we/they are doing in WOW, the ony thing about GWs is you don't progress repeating the same silliness over and over whereas in WOW you do and much much futher with more carrots in front of the horse type play than GWs has. GWs becomes boring because it has no progression or anymore goals other than VANITY? To me there is no fun in gaining vanity without POWER to go along with it like in WOW or EQ or the rest of the others. GWs is different, but, it's still really the same as there is nothing more than repetitive play of the same thing session after session.

I kinda just admitted it's number one.
So if I admitted it's number one, why are you continuing to criticize and insult my decision to play it?
You really think that my leaving WoW to play GW means I'm defunct or inadequate in some way?
I played WoW, got bored. It happens with every game eventually.
What should I do then? Accept your criticism of me. Okay, you are a better person than I am.
What do you wish of me now?

Master Knightfall · Jan 07, 2008, 12:19 PM // 12:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redfeather1975

I kinda just admitted it's number one.
So if I admitted it's number one, why are you continuing to criticize and insult my decision to play it?
You really think that my leaving WoW to play GW means I'm defunct or inadequate in some way?
I played WoW, got bored. It happens with every game eventually.
What should I do then? Accept your criticism of me. Okay, you are a better person than I am.
What do you wish of me now?

Well I wasn't really directing my comments at you Redfeather, but, at that other guy with the retard post. As long as you admit it and then got tired of it that's fine. Everyone doesn't like apples or oranges either.